Ancient Misc Myth Articles
Excerpts from website anxious to believe that ancient people had nuclear weapons::
Ancient City Found In India Irradiated By Nuclear Blast 8,000 Years Ago
Radiation still so intense, the area is highly dangerous
A heavy layer of radioactive ash in Rajasthan, India, covers a three-square mile area, ten miles west of Jodhpur. Scientists are investigating the site, where a housing development was being built.
Scientists have unearthed an ancient city where evidence shows an atomic blast dating back thousands of years, from 8,000 to 12,000 years, destroyed most of the buildings and probably a half-million people. One researcher estimates that the nuclear bomb used was about the size of the ones dropped on Japan in 1945.
Myth Reference from Article
"An ancient battle is described in the Drona Parva, a section of the Mahabharata. 'The passage tells of combat where explosions of final weapons decimate entire armies, causing crowds of warriors with steeds and elephants and weapons to be carried away as if they were dry leaves of trees,' says [researcher] Ganguli."
[Editor's note: Ganguli is not a "researcher" but is the now ong dead author of the Mahabharata]
Dwardu Cardona comments:
For all it's worth, the descriptions of the holocaust from the DRONA PARVA section of the MAHABHARATA as relayed by this Kroniatalk person are entirely correct—by which I mean that these descriptions ARE contained in the DRONA PARVA.
However, it should be kept in mind that deities (and planetary ones at that) also took part in this warfare in which the "Triple City" was destroyed.
Even so, as I had long ago realized, the descriptions of this battle, and especially its aftermath, read very much like a modern atomic confrontation. Personally, I do not believe that atomic weapons were known during the time of the Bharata War, but this has always left another door open - which raises the question: Could the planetary thunderbolts (the weapons of the Bharata War) which brought the Saturnian configuration to an end have been imbued with nuclear energy? I'm sure Thornhill will be against this notion and, not to be misunderstood, I am only posing the question. But one thing HAS to be kept in mind: As already stated, and I could supply more quotes, the descriptions in the DRONA PARVA are identical to descriptions that came out of the Hiroshima bombing and, in fact, I have compared the DRONA PARVA battle, item by item, with the Hiroshima event. These events match.
As for the reported discoveries of sites in India which bear radioactive strata, I had never before now read anything of the sort and, as far as I know, nothing of the sort has made it into the type of news-literature I usually peruse.
I'm curious: how would an electrical explanation of the phenomenon account for the residual radiation?
Amy Acheson responds:
I would guess that we always need to keep that pot on the back burner—the possibility that previous civilizations have already "blasted themselves back into the stone age." So I won't discount it completely.
But the Mahabharata is not at all alone in describing "an unknown weapon, an iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death". This is certainly the same story told round the world of the gods and their lightning-weapons. That's why the working title of Dave and Wal's upcoming book is "Thunderbolts of the Gods". So, if this ancient city was destroyed by an atomic bomb, then there must have been many other bombs dropped as well to generate the many other stories.
The other possibility (the one that I favor) is that the description of gigantic thunderbolts is a description of interplanetary electrical interactions. And, like particle accelerators in labs, a planetary thunderbolt would also be capable of initiating both fusion and fission reactions that could produce radioactive isotopes.
Certainly something of that sort happened to the dinosaurs in Colorado—paleontologists have to hide their finds because old prospectors (with Geiger counters) would grind up dinosaur bones for their uranium content. Like the article reports in India, many areas of the Rockies produce rocks which (when used in building foundations and fill) lead to some of the highest rates of cancer and deformities in the USA.
Thanks for your reply. You mentioned the possibility that previous civilizations have already "blasted themselves back into the stone age."
One reason I find this possibility incredible is the extensive infrastructure required to create nuclear weapons, and the intense contamination caused by nuclear reactors, chemical plants (for making conventional explosives), electronics factories, etc. As far as I know, no evidence of such ancient toxic sites exists.
And the nuclear explanation cannot account for the "fighting sky chariots," or the imagery of lightning bolts. (As we know too well, nukes are more like "balls of fire.")
I asked about electrical causes of residual nuclear radiation, and I like your answer:
"...like particle accelerators in labs, a planetary thunderbolt would also be capable of initiating both fusion and fission reactions that could produce radioactive isotopes."
Stupendous discharges could involve temperatures great enough for fusion (around 10^8 - 10^9 K), and if enough unstable isotopes were created, some radiation might remain after thousands of years. One could estimate the magnitude of the discharge from the amount and kind of residues. I'd think that given the geology of a site, one could also search for "combustion products" typical of such temperatures in the local surface and building materials.
Please understand that I am a complete novice to the theories of catastrophism, and largely skeptical (for want of having read the evidence). But the idea enchants me, both the scope of the questions it addresses, and the audacity of its claims. It's a pleasure to be part of your discussion.
Michael Armstrong jumped in with:
My answer is not intended to be definitive but is just exploring some alternatives to an atomic weapon explanation.
First of all it is helpful to get some things into perspective. The US military has what is called a FAB, a fuel-air-bomb that is comparable to a nuclear weapon in explosive energy release and destruction. The device works simply by exploding an aerosol device that mixes a huge amount of flammable gas such a propane with a comparable amount of air into an explosive mixture over a wide area, and then detonates it in a huge and widespread fireball. The magnitude of the size of the aerosol cloud before detonation is what gives this device such destructive potential.
Secondly, it is apparent that in a catastrophe on October 8, 1871 around the Chicago area and know as the Great Chicago Fire, a small piece of a comet entered the Earth's' atmosphere and both discharged electrically and exploded and burned an area that covered parts of four states.
Material that would be coming at us from outer space would most probably be coming from a non-oxygenating environment and could consist of almost any materials, many of which would react violently in the Earth's Oxygen-Nitrogen atmosphere. It is helpful to understand that for the non-metallic elements, Oxygen and Nitrogen are the second and third most chemically reactive elements behind Fluorine. A chunk of material coming in could be partly elemental Phosphorous, Selenium or Sulphur, for instance.
Even vaporized Fe has a tremendous reactive potential when suddenly released into Oxygen/Nitrogen. According to Velikovsky's research we have significant reason to believe that chunks of frozen hydrocarbons—naphtha, methane, ethane, propane, acetylene, etc.—have intersected the Earth and rained down fire and flammable material with devastating results.
Thirdly, in the electrical universe view of things, it is possible and even probable for incoming material to be charged—sometimes even HIGHLY charged—in relationship to the Earth, and then, after glowing brightly on its way into our electrical environment, to discharge in a bolt or bolts between it and the Earth. Such a discharge could or would fragmentize or vaporize this material, and in a moment release the combined electrical, chemical and kinetic energy, and could easily make our largest nuclear weapons look puny by comparison.
Finally, it is a postulate of the electric universe view that such highly energetic discharges in/through our atmosphere can and do initiate a degree of nuclear fusion, say, between O & O giving S, and can rain down a shower of radioactive material, or otherwise produce radioactivity and remenant magnetism around the crater or rille. And, there is nothing to say that incoming material cannot be already radioactive.
I hope this helps us all see that there is a significant range of possibilities for the above type of destruction other than postulating that such was a designed-by-intelligence nuclear weapon in purposeful warfare. Probably variations of the above scenario have happened MANY times down through the ages and around the world. Consider the Tunguska event. See Dr. V's writings regarding the time around Sennacherib in Worlds in Collision and other articles in Pensee and Kronos concerning such destructive fireballs as well as discharge-induced fusion. I also hope that you continue to sleep well :>)
Hank May added:
My background is in ionizing radiation, but (as with everyone else on the planet) I have had no experience with fission or fusion caused by interplanetary lightning or thunderbolt strikes. One can only speculate. I would simply like to point out that Mark's mentioned an essential point that must be considered in any study of the possibilities. Although a self described novice, he pointed out that "One could estimate the magnitude of the discharge by the amount and kind of residues ... and could search for "combustion products".
I am doubtful about estimating the magnitude of the thunderbolt, but he is solidly on the mark about studying the amounts and kinds of [radioactive] residues and combustion products. Such a study could likely shed light on whether fission or fusion took place, when it took place, and the amount of fissioning/fusioning that occurred. It could also eliminate possibilities such as the radiation being natural, or even modern contamination events (such as surreptitious disposal or dispersal of radioactive waste).
For example, Amy mentioned radioactive dinosaur bones and wondered what caused that. Knowing that the radionuclide is uranium strongly suggests that the radioactivity is natural. Determining the isotopic ratio of U235/U238 would confirm it, and a careful analysis of decay products associated with the uranium would clinch it with near absolute certainty. There is also a mechanism that is known ... uranium deposits were created when solubilized uranium flowed through underground interstices until it arrived at a place (different pH, different chemical environment, etc.) where it left solution and precipitated.
Dinosaur bones back then might have contained (and apparently did contain) the right chemicals to cause the precipitation. I think radioactive dinosaur bones are well known and the cause understood, although I once did a quick search to confirm this and found that the literature to be scant (nonexistent). I didn't find anything, but I have a strong recollection of seeing an article somewhere on dinosaur bones contaminated with uranium, during my career in environmental radiation.
I am left wondering if the astronauts on the moon were able to collect any information that would shed light on the specific radionuclides that are responsible for the enhanced radiation of craters on the moon (mentioned by Wal). If so, the data could shed a lot of light on the mystery.
Anna Morton added from her experience:
I have a large collection of dino bones from Colorado and Utah. These are from many different species and come from different geological periods too. They all are radioactive. The bones from Moab, Utah show the same amount of radioactivity as the bones from Fruita in Colorado. Both areas are famous for their uranium deposits. The question is, are these bones contaminated?
I purchased at one time some fossilized eggs from China, and they show radioactivity as well as the bones from Argentina.
HANK MAY ADDED A CAUTION:
I am assuming that all of the radioactivity is from contamination by natural uranium, which decays predominantly by alpha emission.
Alpha radiation is extremely hazardous if it gets inside the body, but poses negligible threat otherwise, as alpha particles cannot penetrate the dead layer of skin. However, the alpha decay and subsequent decays are accompanied by beta and gamma radiation, which can penetrate the skin and can be hazardous if there is enough of it. I would recommend that you not eat any of the bones (which hardly needs to be said), and that you also not store them under your bed or anywhere where you are apt to spend a lot of time very near them.
Returning to Questioner:
I'm curious: how would an electrical explanation of the phenomenon account for the residual radiation?
Wal Thornhill replies:
There is absolutely no reason to attribute nuclear technology to ancient people. Velikovsky gave the answer to this question decades ago in the 1950's when he claimed in Earth in Upheaval, "Should an interplanetary discharge take place between the Earth and another celestial body, such as a planet... with possibly billions of volts of potential difference and nuclear fission or fusion, the effect would be similar to that of an explosion of many hydrogen bombs...". He claimed in advance that some craters on the Moon would exhibit enhanced radioactivity. That was later discovered to the surprise of geologists.
The specific appearance and action of the electric discharge is the realm of the plasma physicist and high-voltage electrical engineering. The tornadic effects "causing crowds of warriors with steeds and elephants and weapons to be carried away as if they were dry leaves of trees" is expected from the rotary nature of such a discharge and the acceleration of matter upwards. The strange type of burning associated with an electric arc is also expected and was reported in the famous Chicago fires at the time of the return of Biela's comet. It is also interesting, given the widespread association of "thunderstones" with lightning, that the blast should be called an "iron thunderbolt". The parasol imagery is interesting and potentially important.
Well, I guess that answers the question I posed in my previous message re this discussion. However, let's be careful here. The Triple City destroyed during the DRONA PARVA battle compares with the triple city associated with the Saturnian/Martian hero and must therefore be understood as a celestial entity. (I won't go into details here, but think of the Saturnian enclosure, or band, which, at one time, was composed of three individual rings before it separated into seven.)
If that is the case, then the warriors involved in this battle would also have had to have been celestial entities (Talbott's hordes of darkness?).
And yet, the ills that befell the CONQUERING army, together with their steeds and elephants, as also the damage suffered by buildings and innocent birds, compare so favorably with the aftermath of a nuclear holocaust, that one is torn between accepting the entire event as being TOTALLY celestial or only PARTIALLY so.